. >> so i guess the lesson is in part, read your new york times, watch c-span, listen to npr. however, also read your history. >> well, i also read "the wall street journal" as well as "the new york times" to get a balanced view. [laughter] >> and our friends at the journal will like that. >> yeah. >> um, if founders were somehow magically transported here today, what would they recognize, and what would shock them? >> well, the question you ask is interesting in itself. i give a talk to people like this audience here, and inevitably someone will say, well, what would thomas jefferson think of affirmative action, or what would george washington think of the invasion of iraq? i mean, those are really fascinating questions that people, ordinary people will ask. and, you know, you can't imagine other countries doing that. i mean, i don't think anyone in england would say, well, what would one of the two william pitts' think of david cameron's goth? they just wouldn't ask that. so we have an intimate connection. and historians have mocked that. and i don't mock it. lincoln had tha